The View From 1776

Eighty Percent of Americans Don’t Believe Obama

David Broder, a lion among the liberal-progressive Washington Post columnists, writes that Democrat/Socialist health “reform” is a budget-buster.  The latest Quinnipiac University poll reveals that eight out of ten people do not believe the president’s assertions that the proposed National Socialist healthcare scam will reduce healthcare costs.


Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on 11/27 at 06:12 PM
  1. Of course, there is actually no "bill" right now, because nothing has, as yet, been passed and signed into law.

    So, the poll in question is asking for an opinion on the whether some legislation, as yet unwritten, will be successful.

    I guess it shows that the constant drum beat from the insurance lobby is having some effect in protecting their profits. They must be gratified that their millions spent in lobbying are paying off for them.
    Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)  on  11/28  at  02:31 AM
  2. Thomas,

    We must have a psychic connection, because I just used this same Washington Post article yesterday to debunk something my liberal-in-law said over Thanksgiving dinner. He misquoted an earlier Washington Post article as proving more Americans support Obama-care than oppose it. The earlier article merely proves more WP readers approved than reject the measure and, more specifically, approved the nuclear option to force its passage. But, then WP is a notoriously liberal paper and so are its readers. My personal observation back to my L-in-L was that it is very telling that 37% of WP's readership (almost all Democrats) oppose the nuclear opposition (either that, or they mistook the question and oppose government-run healthcare in whatever guise).
    Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)  on  11/28  at  12:56 PM
  3. JJ wrote:
    Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)  on  11/28  at  02:53 PM
  4. Bob,

    I am pleased that, in essence, you DO agree with me that there is no single bill under consideration. As you say there are two bills. In fact, on has passed the house and the Senate version is just beginning to be debated.

    My point was that although the survey shows skepticism in the public's mind toward health reform, their judgment of a "final product" is premature because bills now being debated are subject to change on the floor and in conference.

    I must say, however, that I agree with some of your comments. I would prefer that the legislation more directly address cost than it appears that it will. An Oregon style bill would have a much greater likelihood of keeping costs in check than anything now being considered. This would, however, require a grown-up approach and recognize that minimizing cost includes not paying for procedures that have little chance in succeeding.

    Some call this "rationing." Others think we can afford to employ any procedure to any patient, no matter how remote the chance of helping the patient.

    If there is a 1% chance of success, and the procedure costs 5 million dollars, this is not a wise use of funds, no matter how cold and cruel it sounds.
    Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)  on  11/30  at  04:28 PM
  5. ...AND collectivist socialistic humanism is not a "wise use" of human beings - choicemakers. Never has been. Never will be.

    Works great with ants and bees. And clowns?
    Posted by Jim Baxter  on  12/01  at  10:40 AM
  6. We wouldn't be 'employing any procedure to any patient' if the threats of tort were reduced. Now, we can't do that. Political contributions from trial attorneys would take a huge hit.
    Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)  on  12/01  at  03:46 PM
  7. No, JJ. Not in essence or by any stretch of the imagination are we in agreement.
    Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)  on  12/01  at  09:03 PM
  8. That human institution which is structured on the principle, "...all men are
    endowed by their Creator with...Liberty...," is a system with its roots in
    the natural Order of the universe. The opponents of such a system are
    necessarily engaged in a losing contest with nature and nature's God.
    Biblical principles are still today the foundation under Western
    Civilization and the American way of life. To the advent of a new season we
    commend the present generation and the "multitudes in the valley of

    Let us proclaim it. Behold!
    2010 AD: The Season of Generation-Choicemaker Joel 3:14 KJV

    "I should think that if there is one thing that man has learned about
    himself it is that he is a creature of choice." Richard M. Weaver

    "Man is a being capable of subduing his emotions and impulses; he can
    rationalize his behavior. He arranges his wishes into a scale, he chooses;
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    adjusts his behavior deliberately." Ludwig von Mises

    "To make any sense of the idea of morality, it must be presumed that the
    human being is responsible for his actions and responsibility cannot be
    understood apart from the presumption of freedom of choice." John

    "The advocate of liberty believes that it is complementary of the orderly
    laws of cause and effect, of probability and of chance, of which man is not
    completely informed. It is complementary of them because it rests in part
    upon the faith that each individual is endowed by his Creator with the power
    of individual choice." Wendell J. Brown

    "These examples demonstrate a basic truth -- that human dignity is embodied
    in the free choice of individuals." Condoleeza Rice

    "Our Founding Fathers believed that we live in an ordered universe. They
    believed themselves to be a part of the universal order of things. Stated
    another way, they believed in God. They believed that every man must find
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    dedicated to one purpose above all others - the preservation of individual
    liberty..." Ralph W. Husted

    "We have the gift of an inner liberty so far-reaching that we can choose
    either to accept or reject the God who gave it to us, and it would seem to
    follow that the Author of a liberty so radical wills that we should be
    equally free in our relationships with other men. Spiritual liberty
    logically demands conditions of outer and social freedom for its
    completion." Edmund A. Opitz

    "Above all I see an ability to choose the better from the worse that has
    made possible life's progress." Charles Lindbergh

    "Freedom is the Right to Choose, the Right to create for oneself the
    alternatives of Choice. Without the possibility of Choice, and the exercise
    of Choice, a man is not a man but a member, an instrument, a thing." Thomas

    Q: "What is man that You are mindful of him, and the son of man that You
    visit him?" Psalm 8:4
    A: "I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set
    before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that
    both you and your descendants may live." Deuteronomy 30:19

    Q: "Lord, what is man, that You take knowledge of him? Or the son of man,
    that you are mindful of him?" Psalm 144:3
    A: "And if it seems evil to you to serve the Lord, choose for yourselves
    this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served
    that were on the other side of the river, or the gods of the Amorites, in
    whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord."
    Joshua 24:15

    Q: "What is man, that he could be pure? And he who is born of a woman, that
    he could be righteous?" Job 15:14
    A: "Who is the man that fears the Lord? Him shall He teach in the way he
    chooses." Psalm 25:12

    Q: "What is man, that You should magnify him, that You should set Your heart
    on him?" Job 7:17
    A: "Do not envy the oppressor and choose none of his ways." Proverbs 3:31

    Q: "What is man that You are mindful of him, or the son of man that You take
    care of him?" Hebrews 2:6
    A: "I have chosen the way of truth; your judgments I have laid before me."
    Psalm 119:30 "Let Your hand become my help, for I have chosen Your
    precepts."Psalm 119:173

    Genesis 3:3,6 Deuteronomy 11:26-28; 30:19 Job 5:23 Isaiah 7:14-15; 13:12;
    61:1 Amos 7:8 Joel 3:14 Ecclesiastes 3:1-8

    Sir Isaac Newton
    The greatest scientist in human history a Bible-Believing Christian, an
    authority on the Bible's Book of Daniel committed to individual value and
    individual liberty

    Is anyone smarter than their criteria? No.
    Posted by Jim Baxter  on  12/02  at  09:21 AM
  9. Bob,

    Your fulminations are very vociferous, so I this discussion does not cause a coronary! Calm down!

    Not to drag this out, but when you say,

    "Nowhere, here, did you say anything about changes prior to passage concerning legislation currently in debate and available to public scrutiny."

    May I point out, gently, that in my very first comment I said,

    "nothing has, as yet, been passed and signed into law."

    Every grade schooler knows that until a bill is passed, it is subject to amendment and change. My point was, and remains, that a survey on the health care bill should not be considered definitive because the provisions of the bills are in flux. This in no way implies that the public should not comment on legislation.

    And as to your final point, that we should be free to ask for expensive treatment, even if it has only a 1% chance of success, if we are willing to pay for it - I have no quibble.

    The crucial point is that "if we are willing to pay for it." If you want to buy a private policy that will pay for exotic treatment, more power to you.

    If the country as a whole is worried about being overwhelmed by the cost of medical care for all, we must recognize that a huge chunk of the cost of care comes in the last month of a person's life. While it may sound cruel, it is indisputable that much of this end of life care is for treatments that are inappropriate.

    Just one small example heard of yesterday. An elderly women in a failing state, and in intensive care on life support was given a pap smear test. This test is for a slow growing cancer that would not present for years!

    Yes, somebody has to make the decisions, but that is another debate that can be worked out. We first have to agree that not all procedures are appropriate.
    Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)  on  12/02  at  12:17 PM
  10. JJ,

    First of all, you flatter yourself too much you got a rise out of me. I am less upset by you, than disappointed in you.

    Regarding your rebuttal:

    Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)  on  12/03  at  08:46 PM
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