The View From 1776

Politics in the Guise of Pure Science

Thanks to the Maggie’s Farm website for the link to this article by the estimable John Tierney, one of the very few voices of sanity on the New York Times staff.

Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) on 02/27 at 12:56 AM
  1. Reported in today's papers, new satellite data now indicates that melting in Antarctica is occurring much faster than previously thought. The new data indicate that sea levels are likely to rise by 3 to 4 feet by the end of the century, based on current melting trends measured.
    Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)  on  02/27  at  01:14 AM
  2. One thing you can count on is that science consultants under Obama will be more 'honest brokers' than under Bush. Also, you wouldn't see blacked-out sections of scientific reports because the administration doesn't agree with them or they don't match administration doctrine.

    John Tierney is just one a fishing expedition.
    Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)  on  02/27  at  02:34 PM
  3. One thing I don't understand is why some scientist persist in saying that California or somewhere else in the U.S. will run out of water. If that ever becomes the case there is the technology to overcome it, desalinization. Already there are hundreds of such plants in the U.S. It is still expensive but the costs are coming down. And certainly by 2090 California will not be bothered such, by potential droughts.

    Anyway, all the talk about climate change and the need for recycling is good, whether you agree with it or nor. Such talk motivates most of us to be more respectful of our environment, to be more efficient with our resources and to discover new technologies and alternatives. It is a win, win situation.
    Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)  on  02/27  at  02:57 PM
  4. David,

    Desalination is not the answer to California's water problem because the issue is one of magnitude.

    Desalination may eventually be able to produce a few gallons per capita per day for drinking, but California uses millions of gallons for their agricultural industry.

    To have any hope of meeting the problem, California needs to bring their population growth to zero, and then work on desalination and means to reduce water waste.
    Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)  on  03/01  at  06:03 PM
  5. Also, to have it low cost they would need either a way to use geothermal power or nuclear. You would have to have plants every few miles along the entire coast.

    As more and more scientists question man's role in warming we may see some changes in policies. There is nothing we can do to stop what is happening.

    Even Kyoto scientists said that the most that man could do by the end of the century when you call for the rise in sea levels of 4 foot, is to change the time table by less than five years.

    Also, the current cooling trend may last decades and give us time to work out some more solutions or at least prepare.

    I don't believe the seas will rise 4 feet. I believe that because just the weight of snow causes the earth's equator to bulge by 3/4 of an inch, what we will see is the ocean floors sink, pushing up land masses and causing a new volcanic age with eruptions in places never seen before. The ash will be so great that it will cloud the skies and send us into a new ice age. The earth is amazing a how "flexible" the crust is.

    Just think of what an additional foot of water weight over 3/4 of the earths surface will do when just snow causes the earth's crust to flex.

    quote:
    Over 400 prominent scientists from more than two dozen countries recently voiced significant objections to major aspects of the so-called "consensus" on man-made global warming. These scientists, many of whom are current and former participants in the UN IPCC (Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change), criticized the climate claims made by the UN IPCC and former Vice President Al Gore.

    The new report issued by the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee's office of the GOP Ranking Member details the views of the scientists, the overwhelming majority of whom spoke out in 2007.

    Even some in the establishment media now appear to be taking notice of the growing number of skeptical scientists. In October, the Washington Post Staff Writer Juliet Eilperin conceded the obvious, writing that climate skeptics "appear to be expanding rather than shrinking." Many scientists from around the world have dubbed 2007 as the year man-made global warming fears "bite the dust." (LINK) In addition, many scientists who are also progressive environmentalists believe climate fear promotion has "co-opted" the green movement. (LINK)
    http://www.exxonsecrets.org/wiki/index.php/Sen._Inhofe's_400_Scientists
    =========================

    The sunspots, recent opening in the magnetic field, and other things are starting to gather the attention of people who study climate change. We have been warming for 18,000 years and there is nothing man can do to stop that but, nature can and probably will. It may destroy billions of people or maybe only millions but, nature can and will do what it wants and there is nothing we can do that will be significant.

    As the Kyoto scientists said, even if we got all the nations in the world to do the "right thing," it wouldn't alter a 100 years by more than less than five. (That was one source I read on Kyoto scientists, there may be other views) in view of the fact that man only contributes less than 1/2 of one percent of all greenhouse gases with water vapor being over 75% of the main cause, I agree with their view of the time table being so difficult to alter.
    Posted by JanPBurr  on  03/01  at  07:06 PM
  6. I think it is retarded to think that desalinization in the future will not make a big difference.
    Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)  on  03/01  at  11:14 PM
  7. I think it could make a big difference some day but, it takes desperation to drive people to new thing in too many cases. Also, as long as they can find a cheaper way to get their water, they will.

    California is limiting water use and has had several dry winters reducing their reservoirs but, they are also out of money in the state.

    We have this change in the Pacific where it just switched from warming mode to cooling mode.

    quote:
    NASA
    Posted by JanPBurr  on  03/01  at  11:46 PM
  8. Jan,

    The list you refer to has been discredited. Many scientists on that list say that they were not asked to be put on the list and that they in fact have the opposite opinion.

    The majority of climate scientists (something like 97%) agree that global warming is primarily caused by human activities such as fossil fuel burning and deforestation. The conclusion that global warming is mainly caused by human activity and will continue if greenhouse gas emissions are not reduced has been endorsed by more than 50 scientific societies and academies of science, including all of the national academies of science of the major industrialized countries. The U.S. National Academy of Sciences, the American Association for the Advancement of Science, the American Meteorological Society, the International Union for Quaternary Research, and the Joint Science Academies of the major industrialized and developing nations explicitly use the word "consensus" when referring to this conclusion.
    Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)  on  03/02  at  12:12 AM
  9. And David is correct that Desalination (particularly solar powered desalination) can make a difference, provided we can get the demand side under control.

    You can't stop the boat from sinking by bailing faster if somebody is down in the bilges drilling more holes in the hull.

    We have to stop the population growth to have any hope of solving these demand issues.
    Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)  on  03/02  at  12:23 AM
  10. J.Jay
    You may be correct, as our politicians aren't too reliable. Send me the source for that information, I would like to read it and send it to the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee that released that report. I think we should let them know when they are wrong.

    However, we are in a cooling trend and it will probably last a few decades and if we have both the lack of sunspots and the cooling mode in the Pacific it may be even cooler but only time will tell. Then when it is over we will warm again as we have for 18,000 years. There is nothing we can do about the cooling and warming trends caused by the oceans and sunspots and volcanos which are the major causes.

    Man only contributes less than 1/2 of one percent of total gases. With 76% coming from water vapor the change in the Pacific may be one of the things that changes that particular warming condition by reducing the amount of water vapor being released in the cool mode.

    Man is a major problem, especially with pollution but there is virtually nothing he can do to stop cooling and warming.

    Here is a good NASA site with lots of charts that shows the temperature rises since the last time the Pacific went into warm mode. Note the drop at the end of the charts for this current belief that we are cooling. Also, note that the drop is not outside the range that could send it back up easily and disprove the people calling for cooling. However, the change in the Pacific has normally been reliable and the sunspot activity is also an "unknown" as we don't know if the minimal activity will return to normal or even exceed normal.
    Posted by JanPBurr  on  03/02  at  10:08 AM
  11. How reliable is this guy?
    "Global Warming is over, and Global Warming Theory has failed. There is no evidence that CO2 drives world temperatures or any consequent climate change," Imperial College London astrophysicist and long-range forecaster Piers Corbyn wrote British Members of Parliament on Oct. 28. "According to official data in every year since 1998, world temperatures have been colder than that year, yet CO2 has been rising rapidly."

    That evening, as the House of Commons debated legislation on so-called "global-warming," October snow fell in London for the first time since 1922.

    These observations parallel those of five German researchers led by Professor Noel Keenlyside of the Leibniz Institute of Marine Sciences. "Our results suggest that global surface temperature may not increase over the next decade," they concluded in last May's "Nature," "as natural climate variations in the North Atlantic and tropical Pacific temporarily offset the projected anthropogenic (man-made) warming."

    This "lull" should doom the 0.54 degree Fahrenheit average global temperature rise predicted by the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, the Vatican of so-called "global warming." Incidentally, the IPCC's computer models factor in neither El Ni
    Posted by JanPBurr  on  03/02  at  10:19 AM
  12. I read that some in Europe are becoming disillusioned too and did a search to see if I could find anything on it.

    quote;
    The reasons for the changing political atmosphere in Europe are manifold. First, the global economic crisis has demoted green policies nearer to the bottom of the political agenda. Saving the economy and creating jobs take priority now.

    Second, disillusionment with the failed Kyoto Protocol has turned utopian thinking into sobriety. After all, most of the Kyoto signatories failed to reduce their CO2 emissions during the last 10 years. There are also growing doubts about the long-term viability of the EU's Emissions Trading Scheme. The price of carbon credits has collapsed as a result of the financial crisis. The drop in demand and the recession are likely to depress carbon prices for years to come. As a result, the effectiveness of the extremely volatile scheme is increasingly questioned.

    Third, a number of countries have experienced a political backlash over their renewable energy schemes. Tens of billions of euros of taxpayers' money have been pumped into projects that depend on endless government handouts. Each of the 35,000 solar jobs in Germany, for instance, is subsidized to the tune of
    Posted by JanPBurr  on  03/02  at  10:25 AM
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